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User talk:Ivan247/DB Promotion
This page is a page dedicated to the discussion on promoting Dan-Ball Games on my user talk page. Please open new parts as the discussion is getting longer. Part 1 Stick Ranger is a fairly decent game that I feel more people need to at least know about. ha55ii doesn't really look like they're about to start advertising it themselves anytime soon. Minecraft sure got popular for a game that was never officially advertised. So why not at least attempt to make Stick Ranger a similar story? Ivan, would you happen to know of any effective strategies for spreading word about games? I'll try to look up some strategies right after I post this, though if you've already got some in mind then that would be quite convenient. I figure if ha55ii won't do it, then it's up to us wiki people. If we enjoy the game this much then surely we want more people to know about it, and thus have more people like us enjoy it too? RadiantDarkBlaze (talk) 04:14, August 29, 2014 (UTC) : I've had a discussion before about posting Stick Ranger or either Powder Game on a website other than sites that have one of them already (for example, requesting one to be put on Armor Games?). Not sure how well that would work, though. Where the party's at [[User:$igma|'Σ']] 04:30, August 29, 2014 (UTC) : Yeah, why does it just have to be SR? I mean, there are a lot of great games on Dan-Ball, although I'm mainly referring to Powder Game 1 and 2. Look at the amount of uploads on the Powder Games. Some days, there isn't even any, so Powder Game needs the advertisment just as much or more than Stick Ranger in my point of view. Spreading the word about all of DB is the way to go Starrysock (talk) 04:35, August 29, 2014 (UTC) :Well, I am not knowledgable on advertising at all... However you may try to start out small by introducing your friends (IRL or in the web) to the games. I myself started playing PG (but not much now, I'm more SR inclined) after my friend told me about it. Ivan247Talk Page 04:45, August 29, 2014 (UTC) :::Yeah, it was the same for me. Unfortunatly, most of the people I've told aren't interested in Dan-Ball... I've been advertising the PGCBs by setting it as my homepage on an xat chat site, though. Doesn't seem that effective so far, but it's a start Starrysock (talk) 04:53, August 29, 2014 (UTC) Alright then, so, basic consenus I'm getting is: "promote both Stick Ranger and Powder Game", "start small by introducing friends (real-life or web) to the games". The first part works fine for me, the second part, well, the vast majority of my internet friends are people here on the Dan-Ball Wiki whom clearly do not need introduction to those games. My real-life friends, the 3 that I'm closest with don't seem terribly interested, and any other friends.... eh.... I don't have quite as much of a social life as I want to. I can't seem to figure out what to talk about with people even if I can at least hold up my end of a conversation. So starting bigger is more or less the only option for me in particular. (I dunno I could go on some free MMO and just ask different random people here and there if Stick Ranger or Powder Game might be their cup of tea). RadiantDarkBlaze (talk) 05:45, August 29, 2014 (UTC) Oh, crap, I'm late for the party... I have the SRCB set as my homepage mainly because that's the game that I peak in (Starrysock and $igma know this.). I've also attempted to play the game while my school had it along with PG. Most of my middle school (about 300) knew about the game after I made a long run through SR in 8th grade (I made it as far as the Oasis without someone messing it up before school was over.). PG, on the other hand, I'm not as good at (100bit even worse as I'm not that great a con artist.) because my artistic nature lacks a good amount. I did try to make an upload a few months ago, but I stopped after I ran out of motivation. I still have the code for it. When it comes to advertising, playing the games publicly is a good idea to draw attention, however, I also thought of a unofficially made commercial made from Blender to post on YouTube (Probably RDB's channel since he's the only on here with one, as far as I know.) along with some fast-paced GIFs from the gameplay itself. What have your ideas come up to? ( Omega16)(Talk) 16:08, August 29, 2014 (UTC) Quite honestly just my strikethrough joke. Except I'm not sure how well that would go over- people would probably just get annoyed with me unless I figured out a way to be really good about it. (Can't believe I resorted to thinking about that joke seriously for a moment). At any rate if we're gonna be talking about the games to other people to attempt to get them interested then how can we make them sound good while keeping the images of the games realistic? What are the good points about each game that we should focus on? What really low points of each game are there that are low enough to be really blantantly obvious to the point that we should probably brace people for them so that they're more likely to stay? Let's start with the last 2 of the 3 questions. I personally can't say too much about Powder Game because it only catches my interest once every 5 blue moons. So I personally will be spear-heading the Stick Ranger side of the Dan-Ball promotions. Someone who plays Powder Game a fair bit though Stick Ranger not so much should probably be the one to spear-head the Powder Game side. The Powder Game side might be able to use a sperate section of the talk page. (Speaking of the talk page- Ivan, think it might be time to archive a good portion of your talk page again? We're doing a bit of scrolling here). .... This post (this section) is getting a bit long itself. Ivan, would you recommend creating and using an actual page to organize our ideas for promoting Dan-Ball? RadiantDarkBlaze (talk) 01:49, August 30, 2014 (UTC) :Starry Sock and I could cover the Powder Game side of it, but I almost wouldn't bother (and Starry Sock probably wouldn't either) because of a little thing called The Powder Toy that has metaphorically vacuumed a large portion of the Powder Game community and is one of the leading causes that Dan-Ball is unpopular right now. TPT has over 100(?) elements and, dare I say, many high-quality uploaders. The only counter-arguments Starry Sock and I have about this is Powder Game is MUCH less complicated and doesn't require a download. :So that leaves telling people that haven't heard of TPT about Powder Game, and it might be less likely that they would care enough right off the bat to dedicate 10 seconds of finding it on the Internet, much less playing it. :I still like playing Powder Game, and I also think Powder Toy is too complicated to play much without becoming too bored to keep the window open. But apparently, there are a lot of people who would disagree. Where the party's at [[User:$igma|'Σ']] 02:15, August 30, 2014 (UTC) :Hm, I took a quick look at Powder Toy.... I'll admit, it looks very similar to Powder Game, and looks to be basically Powder Game+ for the more complex imaginative minds out there. Unfortunately I think we may have to accept losing a few (if not several) people to Powder Toy, however we could advertise Powder Game as "a little simpler than Powder Toy while still being fun, doing what you want it to do, and not requiring a download". That's probably our best shot. I've got a few things to do- if I don't come back later tonight then I'll come back tomorrow for sure. RadiantDarkBlaze (talk) 02:30, August 30, 2014 (UTC) :Well, that really depends on how you advertise it. Saying "it's a simpler version of TPT" might make people think "TPT? Yeah, I can handle the more complex version, I'm gonna play that." :It's like advertising ver1.1 of SR because there's less stages so you don't have to work as hard. I think, if you're actually gonna be talking to someone, don't mention TPT unless they bring it up, and if doing something like Omega16 said about youtube, just keep it PG ;) :But, yeah. We won't get everyone, but that 1 in 100 person who might just stay could be the next great uploader. Starrysock (talk) 02:44, August 30, 2014 (UTC) Part 2 ......Anyone come up with anything yet? My idea still stands. ( Omega16)(Talk) 01:42, September 1, 2014 (UTC) :Well, a while ago I made a somewhat lame (albeit creative) attempt of an advertisement in a level I created on Happy Wheels. Since it only got 800 views or so, it didn't help much. But imagine if it was a featured level, where thousands of people would read that advertisement per day. It would have to get a lot of attention, though, and now that I think of it, I don't think Jim Bonacci (Happy Wheels creator) doesn't allow advertisements... :Also, I probably won't throw away my idea of submitting Powder Game 1/2 or Stick Ranger to Armor Games anytime soon. By the way, Stick Ranger has a higher chance of getting on the website because it's an adventure game instead of a sandbox game... Where the party's at [[User:$igma|'Σ']] 02:11, September 1, 2014 (UTC) : For those of you frequent Facebook users, maybe recommending it there? Other forms of social media would probably work, too (although I've only ever used Facebook). : I also thought of a controversial idea for the Xat users. Set one of the Dan-Ball pages (preferably the actual game page like PG or SR) as your homepage, and then go onto random super-active chats with and say a few things, hoping someone will get curious and click the homepage. The problem is that this might be considered soliciting. Thoughts? Starrysock (talk) 02:29, September 1, 2014 (UTC) :: That could work—except that most Xat chats don't allow advertising to other chats and websites. This is going to be harder than I thought... ::I've heard there are a lot of Xat freaks eccentrics, so would they be okay for Dan-Ball? Where the party's at [[User:$igma|'Σ']] 02:52, September 1, 2014 (UTC) :::>>(first point) Well, we wouldn't really be advertising. I mean, just go to a chat. Say a few things, and move on. You don't have to tell people to go there, but instead let curiosity handle it. I doubt we'd run into trouble. It's like wearing a shirt with a brand name. :::>>(second point) Yeah, I was thinking about that. I've been on a lot of chats, and as long as you stay off those role-playing things (anything like this, of those party/"friend" chats all the personal/"weird" chats), and concentrate more on the gaming chats, you should be fine. Starrysock (talk) 06:15, September 1, 2014 (UTC) Part 3 Well, for me, I found Powder Game and Dan-Ball through VSauce, because I liked the creative aspect of it. But all I really played was Powder Game. Stick Ranger was too slow at the start for me and I got bored of it. None of the other games really interested me either. Nowadays I'm bored of waiting for the next Stick Ranger update. I think half the problem of why people are leaving the site is because of how slow things are added - even if it is consistent - and how sometimes not much is added that seems like it would be very easy to make at this point. Of course, this is out of our control and we really shouldn't pressure ha55ii to have updates faster, but I think it's a main problem. Because if I feel a certain way, chances are someone else does to. Another problem is how games are made but left unfinished it seems. For some this works, but Cross Virus? Couldn't that have been uploaded as one full game instead of having to take up space in the update log? Right now there are three Dan-Ball games I play on a regular basis: Powder Game 2, Stick Ranger, and I keep Monster Box open for a while when it's updated. Look at how many unfinished or obsolete games are on Dan-Ball. Some just don't work and it would be better if we got whole games instead of them in pieces, or just got more content per update, or even having more updates. As for promoting games, they should firstly be more interesting. Powder Toy looks amazing, though I won't play it simply because I don't care to enough. Stick Ranger has a lot of potential and a good amount of replayability for a JavaScript game. You can try out a new team setup or different item combinations. I'm right now working on a four-priest team. (Somehow it's easier in a defensive sense, but incredibly hard otherwise.) But take a look at Fan-Ball. It's clear, especially considering how stupidly far you all took the game, that we want to be able to expand the SR universe. In other words, making our own levels, enemies, classes, weapons, etc. And if that was an option, spreading the word about SR would be so much bloody easier. (rant over) --Shnowshner200 (talk) 22:15, September 19, 2014 (UTC) :In short: "Ha55ii, WHAT ARE YOU THINKING?!" :Yes, the actual conversation was about spreading the word about Stick Ranger, but Starrysock and $igma mentioned Powder Game as well, which I find a little weird since 90+% of new people go to the first or second games. Stick Ranger, in contrast, seems overshadowed for unknown reasons. A level editing section sounds freaking awesome, but when is that going to happen is the question... :Either way, spreading the word is basically word of mouth at this point, unless someone manages to find a YouTube video talking about one of the games. Have you any ideas on how to spread it farther? ( Omega16)(Talk) 23:28, September 19, 2014 (UTC) :@Omega Well, being that most of DB's users are from word of mouth, so it wouldn't be the first or second games, but instead the most popular games, such as SR or PG. Trust me, most kids on their lunch break (which is most of the DB population) play PG or other games than SR, which needs time and/or an account. : @Shnowshner200 Well, this doesn't really have anything to do with the game's promotion, but I get your point. You're right, ha55ii could be doing a lot'' ''more to attract people to his site, such as finishing the games, or simply listening to what people want (it seriously almost seems that he doesn't care about the amount of people on his site, with all this lack of advertising and updates that people request, or at all). However, there are two possible reasons for the small updates. The first is simply because ha55ii is lazy, and coding is a lot of work (I'm sure we can all relate to that). The second reason is that this could actually be a tactic for keeping people on the site. It may sound silly, but small updates leave people wanting more, and obligates them to keep coming back to check for new updates. (Of course, a month between updates on highly-popular games like Pg2 and SR isn't helping, or what I'm talking about). I really wish he would add a level editor to games like SR, Cross virus, Earth editor, and Monster box, though... But at least we have the upload button on Powder Game :/ : Sadly, there isn't any way to contact ha55ii, or at least get him to listen to you, so ranting about this here isn't really going to help. (file:xparasite gif.gif(Starrysock (talk) 23:44, September 19, 2014 (UTC) ::Spock...how many times do I have to tell you? I know that most DAN-BALL users are school kids, and I know most of them can't play SR for very long (except for me, who got to Oasis as I mentioned). These days, the Internet is a must-have in the common household, so why they cannot go home and play the game/s at home is something I just can't understand at all. ( Omega16)(Talk) 23:57, September 19, 2014 (UTC) :::Well, the thing is is most of them really don't care enough to go home and play. For them, it's just something to do when you have five minutes of free time and a computer, with nothing else to do such as watching TV (which they'd do at home). I know because I've seen a lot of this, and even did some of it myself before I made an account. (file:xparasite gif.gif(Starrysock (talk) 00:36, September 20, 2014 (UTC) ::::Same here, but I held on where others didn't. And here I am today as arguably the best SR player in the DAN-BALL comment boards. ::::...Wait a minute, why are we talking about this and not about promotional stuff like this is about? Have you thought about anything else to promote DAN-BALL? ( Omega16)(Talk) 01:13, September 20, 2014 (UTC) ::Even I discovered PG through word-of-mouth. And I know for a fact that ha55ii doesn't care about the games as much as he should. He says that creating games on Dan-Ball is just a hobby, so he could suddenly stop updating if he wanted to. If someone took over ha55ii's position (one who isn't as bored as he is with the site), we would see more, better updates, and ideas could possibly be listened to. We could have a small comment section for each upload on Powder Game 1/2, and level editors for Stick Ranger. Maybe we could even upload our own Stick Ranger world for others to try to conquer, but we probably won't if ha55ii is the only one in charge of making and updating these games. Where the party's at [[User:$igma|'Σ']] 01:22, September 20, 2014 (UTC) :...Well...there IS otascube. ( Omega16)(Talk) 02:02, September 20, 2014 (UTC) ::Eh, he specializes in mobile games, and I don't think he would be interested in taking over the actual games on the site. But we never know. Where the party's at [[User:$igma|'Σ']] 02:18, September 20, 2014 (UTC) :::True, but he could make his own ideas specifically for the mobile version, while ha55ii can make his ideas for the PC version. ( Omega16)(Talk) 02:50, September 20, 2014 (UTC)I know ::::I know I don't speak alone with this but I'd absolutely love to work on SR myself and maybe incorporate some of the less "holy crap you guys have taken this to a whole new level of obsession" Fan-Ball ideas and see what I could do, but I don't have anything close to the knowledge that ha55ii or some of the others here do. But our javascript lessons in Computer Programming aren't that far away I hope... ::::...This is quickly becoming less of Dan-Ball promotion and more "What can be done to make Dan-Ball better." Of course, these go hand-to-hand. Promoting a better site is easier, but making a site better could use more people helping, which can be brought in by promoting. If we send other people anything, the games should be: Powder game 1/2, Stick Ranger, Mine Tower, Monster Box, Cross Virus and maybe Sand Moji if they want to learn Japanese (that's the language use right?). ::::Maybe once Stick Ranger is finished ha55ii will add some sort of world/level creator and then stop working on games as much. Which makes sense if you ask me, that's a pretty big update and leaves a lot of room for creativity, sounds like a lot of fun, and give many players satisfaction. That would make promoting Dan-Ball soooo much easier. But, I mean, there isn't really any way of knowing the chances of that right now. --Shnowshner200 (talk) 21:44, September 20, 2014 (UTC) :::::That is, if it EVER gets finished. :::::You do have a point, though, as making the games better would definitely help promoting DAN-BALL, but ha55ii doesn't want anything to do with the other players, as far as I know. Also, you haven't answered my question: Have you thought of any ideas to promote DAN-BALL in general? ( Omega16)(Talk) 22:29, September 20, 2014 (UTC) ::::::I don't have many ideas other than sharing the games online like via social media or whatever. That's already been said, though, so my ideas aren't to much help right now. I'm just trying to think of ways to have more interesting games, which would basically increase the amount of attention the site gets. Other than that, I don't really have much to say. :::::::Also we need to start a new topic I'm tired of spamming colons --Shnowshner200 (talk) 00:10, September 21, 2014 (UTC) :::::::: Sigh, fine. ( Omega16)(Talk) 00:15, September 21, 2014 (UTC) :::::::: Shnowshner200, since there's no possible way to actually improve the site, I think what you're saying is better-suited to the Fan-Ball wiki, because all it really is is an idea for the game. :/ :::::::: Not to say that I don't agree, but there isn't any way this can practically help the website, which is what this article is about. Just sayin'... (file:xparasite gif.gif(Starrysock (talk) 00:25, September 21, 2014 (UTC) ...So, anyone got any new ideas thought up? ( Omega16)(Talk) 00:17, September 21, 2014 (UTC) :Well, (sort of a continuation of my last post) if the team in Japan suddenly grew, Dan-Ball would surely grow. It definitely has the potential to be a much more amazing site than it currently is, and I'm positive that after 8 years (as of this post), they're all bored of updating. I know this is a little late, but Part 4 was already created. Where the party's at [[User:$igma|'Σ']] 01:34, September 21, 2014 (UTC) ::So? ( Omega16)(Talk) 03:25, September 21, 2014 (UTC) ::You know, I don't think this section is really needed at this time. There's no reason why we can't edit the older sections, and this section exists for the exact same reason as part 2. At least, that's my view. ::(file:xparasite gif.gif(Starrysock (talk) 03:56, September 21, 2014 (UTC) There. Better? ( Omega16)(Talk) 04:13, September 21, 2014 (UTC) Part 4 Check out the review I left for this Google Play game called "Burning Blade" on Sept. 27, 2014. (My account name there is the same as it is here- "RadiantDarkBlaze"). Do people approve of that as an acceptable method of spreading word about Stick Ranger only when they genuinely find an action-RPG game far less fun than Stick Ranger? Even the developers' response to my review seemed to be more or less neutral, maybe even borderline positive (they did actually respond to me, likely meaning they've no plans to delete my review). RadiantDarkBlaze (talk) 06:19, September 28, 2014 (UTC) : A review might help a little, but what we need is an endorsement, a camera, and Tom Hanks's phone number. Seem extreme? I'm just saying if a famous person famously uses Dan-Ball, or says it's at least an okay site, it would probably help it. It doesn't even have to be someone internationally known, maybe a youtube reviewer (it could be seen a lot)? They are all over Happy Wheels, the game I mentioned earlier. Where the party's at [[User:$igma|'Σ']] 14:51, September 28, 2014 (UTC) : :: >>RadiantDarkBlaze :: Yeah, but you would have mostly advertised the Mobile game there, being that if I saw that, I'd search first for the mobile version first. Also, who reads every single review of a game? Sure, maybe one or two people, but then who actually looks at any kind of link, ect? Although, I guess it's the best we have so far... :: >>Sigma :: Yeah, well good luck finding a celebrity to endorse Dan-Ball. Sure it would work... if it could be easily done. I mean, we're trying to draw people to the site by drawing a person to the site :/ ::To be honest, I think you'd have more luck to spray-paint the URL on the side of a building... :: (file:xparasite gif.gif(Starrysock (talk) 20:57, September 28, 2014 (UTC) ::: Like I said, it doesn't have to be somebody that 99% of the world's population has heard of. A famous youtuber is probably the best chance (that is within our grasp at the moment) we have. Or a website reviewer, but if I haven't heard of any, it probably won't work out very well. Where the party's at [[User:$igma|'Σ']] 21:38, September 28, 2014 (UTC) ::::I think I've seen a YouTuber talk about Powder game among his "Top 10 Flash Games" video, but I can't remember his name. ( Omega16)(Talk) 22:46, September 28, 2014 (UTC) Part 5 There was a recent discussion on the Powder Game 2 Comment Board about what would happen if ha55ii gave the public access to the source code of his games. Would Dan-Ball's popularity grow? This is quite possible, since Powder Game, a sandbox game, was what made Dan-Ball famous in the first place. After the upload update, the word about "making things and sharing them with the world" spread. Sharing the source code would allow people to make their own things in a completely never-before-seen fashion, and, if ha55ii wanted, upload their own "games" with new elements and properties. The Powder Toy allows its players to modify the code, and look how popular it is. I've even heard that many TPT players play the game mainly because of this. Not only would it bring more people to Dan-Ball, but those players wouldn't be just your average everyday noobs. Source code editing would bring people who are motivated enough to create and change the game based on its code. So, while they're there, why not use this motivation and talent to make amazing uploads? If ha55ii's tired of updating (and he openly states this about Powder Game 2 on his blog), then giving everyone the ability to make their own updates based on what they would like to see in the game would eliminate that problem. And what about Stick Ranger? The idea of "creating everything from scratch and uploading your own world for others to play" would become true. But, of course, there are those who would "steal" the code and make near-identical games with it claiming that they made it. I don't know much about "releasing source codes", so I'm not sure if any of this is what would happen. If it isn't, then this may be a lost cause and I would be a little embarrassed. What are everyone's thoughts about this? Where the party's at [[User:$igma|'Σ']] 03:23, January 23, 2015 (UTC) :This is subject to opinion, but how would it work like that? I know the first Powder Game has a few slots missing for different elements, but Powder Game 2 has a complete Menu, aside from two tool slots... Omega16(Talk) 03:48, January 23, 2015 (UTC) :*shrugs* Wouldn't have TPT players have had to figure out how to expand the menu on that game at some point? Powder Game players would just have to do the same. Anyway. Sigma, how do you plan on conveying this to ha66ii? Getting ha66ii to respond is already a problem in and of itself, so we better know what we're doing if we're really gonna suggest this to ha66ii. I don't know anything about releasing source codes, but if we suggest that ha66ii make something similar to this for Powder Game as well.... I have a feeling that could get us somewhere. RadiantDarkBlaze (talk) 04:16, January 23, 2015 (UTC) :>>Sigma :I completely agree. Dan-Ball games are very un-user freindly, especially compared to most other online games, and with modding support, that could basically be fixed altogether. :I don't know if any of you know or have Steam, but if ha55ii were to put PG1 and/or PG2 on there with a Steam Workshop page (basically a page allowing people to share their creations and view others. In this case, mods and uploads) for free download, he could probably attract a lot of potential players. Heck, even putting it on Steam would be good enough, let alone supporting modding. The copyright should protect people from ripping off the code altogether (I'm not sure why ha55ii is so extremely overprotective). :What really bugs me is that ha55ii makes almost no attempt to make his games more popular, or even listen to their fan-base. And on top of that, he also doesn't take any opportunities from people who would gladly help him :/ :Long story short, ha55ii needs to allow modding for all his sandbox games like Powder Game and Earth Editor, a level editor for things like Stick Ranger, Monser Box, Cross Virus, Micro Panda, Ham Race, maybe even Lim Rocket, and all those other games if he wants his site to remain even as popular as it is now in the next few years. He says he wants to make new games, but no one will ever see them if no one is attracted to Dan-Ball in the first place. :>>Omega :Modding would have to allow the player to modify almost everything on the source code, not just the elements. Otherwise, there isn't much of a point. :>>RDB :Somehow, I don't ever actually see this ever happening, judging from ha55ii's track record. If he would ever listen, this could work, but getting him to listen to 'a bunch of foreigners' is the problem :( file:xparasite gif.gif 04:30, January 23, 2015 (UTC)